The first time EVER that front wheel drive lead to something good! Finally some decent news!

I was about to add ''Look, even Tristan manages to not crash every now and then!'' but I didn't.. well, I just did

Its the age old (probably older) debate of feel vs realism. Feel is subjective, and many simracers think real drivers are gods and real cars are very hard to drive. This is mostly not true, though getting pole position is hard even in a VW Jetta Diesel..

If you have a remote sign of talent, cars should be fairly easy to drive a few secs off the pole time. Plenty of simracers do not have a remote sign of talent though, but plenty of them do have some.. So when talent is a big mixed bag, plus expectations of what is realistic are a mixed bag, you get huge opposites like LFS and most rFactor mods still being liked by the extremes in the simracing population..

Typing is the new hotlapping

Yeah the point is not so much that I don't want people to enjoy the Enduracers mod, but LFS main strength that cars don't kill you instantly beyond the limit, which is exactly the weak point of most rfactor mods.

LFS vs Enduracers is really really far apart, very far indeed. LFS is better. Much better.

368 points</SPAN>, so you achieved position 9320 of 327152 on the ranking list


You type 469 characters per minute
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and thats on decaf!

402 points, so you achieved position 4482 of 327182 on the ranking list


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still decaf!

Last edited by Niels Heusinkveld, Thu, 20 Aug 2009 05:52.

It will likely make those who always accused rFactor of being a bit 'snap/spin/die/uninstall' have a good reason to do just that though!

When I analyzed the G25 I noticed at 'top speed' the motors turn at abou 1500rpm. It seems that somewhat higher voltage shouldn't necessarily cause problems yet it would increase the wheels top speed of ~1.6 revs/second to something higher.

Those who can't access RSC for some reason here are the 'tips' i came up with:

Work in progress 'tips' file to get more out of rFactor.
June 23

=====================
Cut The Crap Settings
=====================

These things reduce the bloat if you don't find these things neccesary:
- You can delete all movies from the MovieFiles and UIdata\movies directory
- You can delete all the sounds in the UIdata\UISounds directory
- You can delete all music files in the Music directory

Less input latency:
- Set ''frames rendered ahead'' to 1 for Nvidia 8x00 and 9x00, and to 0 for other nVidia cards (RivaTuner vsync options)
- Set ''flip que size'' to 0 for Ati cards to achieve the same
- don't use vsync
- set a 'max framerate' provided your system never drops below this, see below in the notepad section


===========================
"realism" settings in game:
===========================
- tripple check all the driving aids are off (perhaps not assign steering help to the 'near escape' F1 key..)
- tripple check speed sensitive steering (0%)
- linear (50%) sensitivities
- 0% deadzones
- 0% exaggerate yaw and head movement

Force Feedback:
- If a mod doesn't come with clear RealFeel settings, its not worth playing! (imo..)
- G25 owners can probably lower the realfeel smoothing level to 0 or 1 and use these defaults:
[General]
RealFeelIsOn=True
ConsoleEnabled=False
ConsoleRepeatDelay=0.100000
SpeechEnabled=True
KeyRepeatDelay=0.100000
SteerForceInputMax=11500.000000
MinSpeed=4.000000
DefaultMaxForceAtSteeringRack=2000.000000
DefaultSteeringDamper=11500.000000
DefaultSmoothingLevel=0
LogEnabled=False

- In Game, set effects to -100% for logitech wheels
- set effects to 'low' (no canned effects) and zero damping just in case..
- Set your logitech software to ZERO for damping, spring and center spring.
- Set your logitech software to ~ 102% forces for a slightly more responsive center



===============================
"realism" settings for Notepad:
===============================

Values below are "realistic" and essential! (imo..)

---
PLR
---

Quick Chat #12="The Answer is 42" // ok this is just nonsense :-)

[ DRIVING AIDS ]
Steering Help="0"
Throttle Control="0"
Brake Help="0"
Antilock Brakes="0"
Spin Recovery="0"
Invulnerability="0"
Autopit="0"
Opposite Lock="0"
Stability Control="0"
Auto Clutch="0"
Auto Lift="0"
Auto Blip="0"
Shift Mode="0"
Repeat Shifts="0" // if your shifter 'bounces' (shifts twice very quickly) try 1 or 2


[ Mechanical Failures ]
QUICK Failure Rate="1" // non time scaled
MULTI Failure Rate="1"

[ Sound Options ]
Speed Of Sound="340.00000" // normal is 300 but the real speed of sound is 340! more accurate dopler effect.


[ Graphic Options ]
Rearview="1" // center and side mirrors
Virtual Rearview In Cockpit="1" // if you can't see, "1" gives you 3 virtual mirrors, for safe online driving..

Cockpit Vibration Mult1="0.06" // I dislike vibrations. Each mod / car has its own vibration magnitude
Cockpit Vibration Freq1="15" // which gets multiplied by these numbers on the left. Lower numbers means
Cockpit Vibration Mult2="0.03" // less view vibrations. Zero means no view shake at all. The values on the left
Cockpit Vibration Freq2="10" // are a big reduction of the default values but feel free to zero em all.

Exaggerate Yaw="0" // Very annoying and 'weird' when not zero even though it 'tries' to help. Zero this biatch! :-)

Head Physics="0" // Stops even more annoying head movements
Head Rotation="0" // and some more just in case.

Glance Rate="33" // Quicker glancing time is money at 200mph!
Glance Angle="1.2" // Makes the look left/right buttons look 90 degrees for a better look besides you


Max Framerate="0" // Helps if your system is always 120+fps to set this to 120 for more smoothness less notchyness in fps.

Depends heavily on the system. Will improve consistency in fps and input delays.


[ Game Options ]
Measurement Units="0" // 0 = metric, 1 = english/imperial)
Speed Units="1" // 0 = MPH, 1 = KPH
Damper Units="1" // 1 turns car setup damper values into actual damping rates, not just 'setting 1..10'




--------------
Controller.ini
--------------

Steer Ratio Speed="0" // When zero, there is no extra sharp steering at low speeds.
Speed Sensitive Steering="0" // When 0, steering is just as sensitive at 1km/h as 300km/h as it should be!
Gear Select Button Hold="1" // Set to 1 when you have a H shifter (and the mod supports 'no delay' shifts)
Steering Wheel Range="900" // set to your actual wheel rotation so the graphics match your actual wheel


Axis [00, 00] Dead Zone="0" // make sure all deadzones are zero, perhaps except brake pedal if your pot is bad
Axis [00, 00] Sensitivity="0.5" // make sure all sensitivities are 0.5 (aka 50% aka fully linear)

Goo, glad you're back, was cool to see you at RSC in the G25 days.

Is the shifter position detection still based on two potentiometers and are the pedals still using pots? Might we see contact less sensors in the future? I bet half the shifter recalls have been due to dodgy pots (mine was..) where it was confused in what gear it was in. I've also heard people about the pedals going jittery after a (longish) time of use. Plenty of low end analog controllers use magnetic or optical type sensors, surely they can be done at or near the price of a pot with a lower long term product failure rate as a result?

Cheers
Niels

That too.. Ah well, successor, predecessor, ancestor, its all confusing I suppose

They mentioned contactless sensors in the pedals, which I doubt.. Would like clarification as I fear they're the same old pots, but if they're not, thats good.

The helical gears should help smoothness a bit and noise a bit more.

I must say it is fairly funny to see them drive; you see huge input lag and very nervous driving.. More talent presenting a fairly decent youtube show than driving cars it seems! Still, good to have SRT around!

Thanks! My Fury helps.. thats rare.

Really all rfactor players should take 15 mins to read this thread and set their controllers and ini files properly

http://forum.racesimcentral.com/showthread.php?t=322431

Hehe sorry! Perhaps Obsolum doesn't even use this but everytime I see it, I sort of black out and go nuts for a few minutes.

Speed sensitivity is EVIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Really it should NEVERNEVER be used in simracing. Its just a way to make people with analog gamepads stand a chance. Its not a matter of personal preference either, it is simply evil and wrong.

I'm not a fan of 'exaggerate yaw' either as that throws me off much more than it (tries to) help but let me say it again:

Speed sensitivity is EVIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and read this carefully:

http://forum.racesimcentral.com/showthread.php?t=322431

are you steering enough? You need to do a fair bit of wheel turning before the controller assignment picks it up.

When rFactor is mentioned in relation to LFS, I'm usually involved as I think most of my cars work fairly well and you can get sideways on the power as you can in LFS, though, might I say so, a bit more realistic..

But LFSers playing the Enduracers mod I don't understand. It is about as far removed from LFS physics as you can get with silly tires that really just don't exist.

When you go from 0 to -2.5 degrees camber, a real tire does NOT gain 20% in cornering grip. When you go a few degrees beyond peak slip angle, cornering grip does NOT plummet.. However, in Enduracers, these two things happen.

IMO it is exactly mods like these that keep LFS players playing LFS, and rightly so. BTW, i'm only on the physics here, the models and sounds are aparantly great, which is also rare in rFactor, so thats very good. They're also NOT converted from F1c which was converted from SCGT which was converted from REVS.. So many good things about the mod, but the physics aren't even remotely realistic.

http://geocities.com/n_heusink ... rphysics/physicsfiles.htm

Not yet, but there is a pretty substantial change to the Vettes on my crappy site..

To make tracks normal, open the TDF and set the bumpamp for the roads and 'bumps' (scroll down in the TDF) to something like 0.002, also make sure al the 'grip' parameters are 1 for roads and bumps.

I'm afraid a few minutes won't cut it, its better to start from scratch rather than fix a mod; there are so many possible flaws, it'll be frustrating.. Sure the tires are probably wrong but I wouldn't be surprised if engine braking is greater than engine power (well probably not but I did once see a mod that had this) plus the old few degrees of bump steer could well be in there. Or a 80% front aero bias, or a COG thats 10cm too high or low..

I could do a F3 car in a few hours, then it would probably sort of be ok, but ideally we'd have a look at your telemetry and compare it at silverstone or Snetterton, thats another few hours of adjusting tires and aero. Then you could still hate it but it would have the right performance. Good chance you'll even be semi impressed with rFactor, depending on how deeply rooted your hate is

Anyway I'm already overbooked with free mods, and I doubt you're serious enough to consider paying me for it ( www.h-engineering.nl ).. I'd say, don't bother tweaking the physics yourself, I know you're capable eventually but you'll have many frustrating hours ahead of you!

It was fun seeing Gabkicks and AJP getting lost at imola!

uploading, 5 more mins until i'll send a pm..

Ello!

We're beta testing the toyota supra tonight and possible again this weekend. Time is approx 2100 CET. If you want to join, reply here and I'll send you a PM with download details somewhere before 2030CET. If lots of people reply (here and at RSC) there might not be room for everyone though.

Cheers
Niels

Quote from MadCat360 :

What about the wheel's own driver settings? Will that alter the fidelity or no?

Absolutely, I did a 'force measurment' test on the G25 above 95% there was no measured increase in force. This is probably within the margin of error but you can be sure that if you set the logitech software to more than 100%, you're adding to the risk of loosing fidelity.

Basically you can probably use profiler settings of 120% but then in game you might need 10% whereas if you use the profiler at 100% you might need 20% in game. These are just some examples, the numbers are probably wrong.

I don't think you should over estimate what the FFB does; it is just a combination of the tire and suspension that resist slip angle in a certain way. So as you apply steering FFB will get heavier, possibly feeling weaker again as you steer more.

If the back goes sideways, the car goes in 'yaw' which also puts the front tires at a slip angle and thus you feel the force feedback wanting to apply opposite lock.

The main thing is not to let the FFB clip. There is a maximum strength FFB value that the sim can send to the wheel, but this has no relation to the in game FFB strength setting. So even when you set the in game strength to 50% you are very likely to overload the FFB and you loose fidelity.

It depends on the car and the setup (caster mostly), but I recall in LFS I rarely exceeded 20 or 25%.